Ritual Sacrifices (no Religion topic!)

AC Feedback and Suggestions
61

We know this can be a very sensible topic for some people but lets calm down, please.
The game is intended to be historical, so it have to depict spiritualism and cosmology of the people whose life is trying to depict, as a game play feature but also as a educational tool.

This game is not subscribed to any present religion or belief so it has not to make happy any of them. Our limit in the representation is budget, development time, research, game play issues and rating ( and this is only because commercial issues and fixed by a properly rated DLC ).

In ancient times belief system was so related with every aspect of life ( and still is today for some people ) that would be a simulation destroyer to keep it apart. We plan to have a way to turn it off belief system as a way to configure the game difficulty, but not as a way to make people who feels bad about playing a game depicting a belief system not compatible with his own. We don’t know at this stage if that option would be available or not.

Keep in mind that our XXI century view of the world can not be used to recreate ancient people behaviour and so it is not a proper tool to judge them.

Of course we don’t intent to offed anyone, but we like to take seriously the historical aspect, as we told before, with its lights and shadows, and shadows are also very important to understand the past. That understanding we think is a good tool to help us to be more critic with our present and our own belief system.

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62

You are right about the pope, but its also true that most of the common people who joined the crusaded did it moved by their faith.
Anyway it was an historical example about strong belief or faith changing the course of an historical event without adding supernatural powers to the mix.
I used this example because I love the first crusade history, so related stuff its the first to come to my mind when looking for examples. Antioquia siege is a perfect case to illustrate this, not only because the faith involved, but also as an example of faith manipulation.

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63

A post was split to a new topic: The First Crusade - and other historical stuff -

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I agree with the other posters: let us calm down. And let us not even refer to current religions, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism or any other one, in any way that could be considered unnecessary or demeaning or belittling. It just leads to conflicts, needlessly. It is a sensitive topic, so if we feel we need to mention something that can be construed as “Islam is a myth” or “Judaism was built by clever fanatics”… there are surely better ways of phrasing it, that wouldn’t make the adherents of any major religion feel bad. Not to mention that all major religion were formed long, long after the game’s time frame. So let’s think before we bring them up :stuck_out_tongue:

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65

I also think we should wait until we have a first impression of the playable version. Perhaps, the religious influence on the game is not so important as in our present assumptions.

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What did he mean? The fact that he used my post how can it not be about what I believe in? [quote=“louis.mervoyer, post:57, topic:2380”]
ke the topic on gender, this one is very sensitive because religion is a part of us. As an atheist, I never try to persuade someone who belive in god that there is no god because for him god is a part of himself it cannot be remove. I only fight back if they try to convert me.

However, I think belief in general was very important in History and is a must have in this game. Most of man greast creation (in this time) were link to religion/belief. Stone temples like the one in England or Malta are good examples.

Moreover, a lot of european pagan belief/festivals had been incorporate in Christian religion :

  • Chrismas was the winter festival, when you can see the sun rise again in the sky
  • Saint John’s Eve was the harvest festival
  • The Annunciation was the Vernal equinox celebration

I understand that your belief made you uneasy to “play” with religion but these ancient beliefs are part of your History and part of your religion History. If they are remove it will feel very unrealistic.

I think most people do not care if there is a religion different from their own in a game. Afterall nobody asks them to believe in it and it is just a game.

I would be very disappointed if religion were remove due to this concern.
[/quote]

I have repeatedly stated I do not want the game restricted by my believes.[quote=“Elfryc, post:58, topic:2380”]
As for the next sentence, you’re trying to impose us your own conception of the world:
[/quote]

Do I impose or are you failing to read the whole post in which at the end state [quote=“badbear, post:56, topic:2380”]
As the statement “Everyone must believe for themselves” this is very true and they must choose what to believe in and as such how they will play the game.
[/quote][quote=“Elfryc, post:58, topic:2380”]

I understand the faulty “he” (instead of “He”!) as God himself. If this is well the case you’re totally hurting my own conception of the world with such an unproven affirmation.
[/quote] You are right I might have done a better with the word “he” but the rest is biblical sound. The following versus "2 Timothy 3:16-17 says “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Peter 1:21 says “For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” Enough said.

You are so right and yet when ever this post is more or less closed by the following example;

More post pop up with my posts as the centre piece. If you are annoyed good, so am I. I have stated many times this is not about my belief but about what is best for the game and my point about was originally about cannibalism and it has spiralled out of control from there. So who is wrong?

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This is not the place to discuss personal beliefs, not for comments about other people personal beliefs.
Please, stay on topic and discuss only about the gameplay you would like to see in the game.

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70

So…The conclusion is :
-Rituals such as food and object offerings would be part of the base game
-Human sacrifices are part of a ‘‘Realism’’ DLC

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71

yeah probably… we will have to wait for realism (at least this part) in DLC. I am quite dissapointed, but will wait how it develops… people nowadays are so oversensitive and easily offended :confused:

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72

Since there will be a “realism” DLC, could we have a “fantasy” DLC with dragons & voodoo? :nerd_face:

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Nope :wink:

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Lol… :sneezing_face:

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It does not really fit in this thread, right?
Just found an interesting recession about “Hellblade” - the question of how our ancestors perceived the world. U.a. “The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind” (Julian Jaynes) Unfortunately in German…

http://videogametourism.at/content/stimmen-hoeren-hellblade-zeigt-uns-ein-anderes-bewusstsein

Drag link directly into the browser :rolling_eyes:

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I will try to read it using translator.
Wish me luck :laughing: !

( … )

Done
German to English seems to work lot better than whatever to Spanish!

Personally I agree that ancient inner mind has little to do with current mind. Almost every speculation I have read about, even based in current tribal societies, remark this point. How to translate this to the game, if doable at all, is another thing :wink:

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77

For a construction sim, it is certainly hardly usable. But from the philosophical side, I found this approach exciting. It would explain the close connection to the ancestors. If such experiences were “normal” at this time, that would explain the lack of doubt that is “normal” in our time.

If we think of phenomena like Nostradamus, Jeanne d’arc or Rasputin etc., this would mean NPCs with extraordinary mental abilities in the game.
How the player understands and applies this - and if and how it affects the gameplay - (?). Do we have to think … maybe it will help later in the game?

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This book also have a nice elaboration about the Neolithic mind. It elaborates that induced altered states of consciousness were normal and interpreted as doors to other worlds. It also elaborates a nice theory on how “religion” started to form from those altered states.

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79

Sorry for the useless comment, but reading this made me flinch in the worst way possible :confounded:

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80

There were many drugs available to our Neolithic ancestors, from opium to nightshade.

For thousands of years, humans have used opium for medicinal, spiritual and even culinary uses. The opium poppy plant produces large circular seedpods which contain both the highly psychoactive opium latex, a white sticky fluid which emerges from any cut made to the pod’s hull, as well as poppy seeds within the pod. The latex can be readily extracted by hand by merely scoring the pod, allowing it to slowly emerge into a container for capture. Both pods and dried, concentrated opium latex would be available to people in the Neolithic.

Highly psychoactive, opium latex contains many alkaloids including morphine and codeine. It can be ingested, heated near a fire to produce a vaporized intoxicant, or even applied directly to a wound. While it is unknown what prehistoric uses it may have had, it isn’t hard to suppose that opium’s uses may have been recreational or religious. Like many natural psychoactive drugs, unregulated usage may have proved potentially dangerous, yet its effects may have been pleasant and dreamlike to its prehistoric users. It certainly would qualify to the Neolithic person as “Big Magic.”

I suspect drug usage will be important in any such rituals, as will other methods of achieving altered states.

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81

When modding comes out Im pretty sure someone will do this @FudgeLand

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Why have modders do it when that would be interesting to the story line and a reason why another community would attack. :slight_smile: