Religion

I believe we must be guided by the principle that everything that happened historically, or plausibly could, or even should, have happened historically, should be possible in game, regardless whether or not it was “rare”, “common”, “unheard of”, or anything else. The player must be able to create a “standard” neolithic tribe, based on our knowledge of history, but also a “non-standard” tribe. And considering how many thousands of years the neolithic era lasted, and how many thousands, even millions of tribes went through it, there are quite a lot of different religious behaviours…

It seems most of us agree around the following points:

  1. Religion should exist in the game.

  2. Religion should not have a supernatural effect, like @Elfryc wrote:

However, as @Gal2 and @lotus253, among others, write:

  1. The religiosity of our tribe members should be based on what they see, hear, imagine, fear, love, and remember (until such time as writing appears and makes stuff more complicated). It could be objects (the sun, the moon, the clouds, a volcano, the mountains, a river, a lake, a well, etc), wildlife (wolfs, bears, lions, birds, fish, moles, you name it), concepts (sun rise, sun set, night, day, lightning, floods, spirits, ghosts, birth, death, ovulation), and ancestors (the legendary founder of our tribe or clan, maybe a hero, a great mother, a great warrior, like @Shadows1381suggests). Or nothing.

  2. The religion of our tribe should be more or less organised, more or less structured, more or less enforced, depending on the development and qualities of the tribe itself. Maybe a strict, rigid, hierarchic, “centralised” tribe creates a demand on all members to worship the same crocodile god, as the tribe shaman directs? Or maybe every member worships his own group of spirits, forces, animals and celestial bodies?

  3. The religion should be both a private and collective concern, depending, again, on the tribe itself, and how it is organised and functions. If everyone lives practically the same way, and spends the days the same way, they may be more open to celebrating and worshipping together… or not. If they’re very specialised and keep away from each other a lot of time, then maybe they will worship and celebrate apart? Maybe they all worship the same forces and entities, but with an individual focus? The pregnant women pray to the divine entity of birth and life, while the young males dance the ritual dance of the hunt?

  4. There should be a great deal of small, almost insignificant rituals, traditions, and religious and or cultural expression, throughout the daily lives of our tribesmen, like a quick silent prayer, or falling down on one’s knees, or kissing the ground, or raising up ones arms and looking upon the sky, or spilling water on the ground, or (as in Homer) pouring out some wine as an offering to the gods before drinking, or the likes. The rituals and behaviours can be prompted by daily events (rising of the sun, setting of the sun, midday), or by performing certain actions (going out on a hunt, sowing new crops, crossing a river, coming home, and so forth… the possibilities are endless, as @lotus253 would energetically tell you.

  5. It therefore makes sense that the passage of greater occasions should be more solemnly celebrated, like the passing of the full moon, or the solstices, the birth of a child, especially a first one, or the death of an elder, or the coming of the first season rains, or the passage of a comet, or a rite of passage of a tribe member’s life. Already when the game begins, our tribe members should have some concept of this, some thought of how to do it, memories of past occasions and so forth. The player should be able to change this, especially over time, and “push” the tribe towards a something else. I suggest, as oft-times before, the use of events, triggered by both the thoughts, wishes, and knowledge of the tribe members, and by the environment and the specific occasion. Maybe a few sliders? @lotus253 has some good suggestions in this.

  6. Just like the level of development and organisation of your tribe decides how religion functions collectively and even individually, and how the knowledge of your tribe (and it’s members) decide a lot about how the members view religion, so should also the knowledge, or technology of the tribe, decide what can be made practically. If the tribe members have discovered the art of metallurgy, and know that native gold can be fashioned into objects, then maybe someone is more prone to suggest making a golden sickle, and burying it in the local field, as an offering to the earth spirits? Or if a tribe member has inadvertently stumbled upon the discovery of how heavy stone blocks can be transported with the helps of ropes and wooden logs… maybe the same tribe member might suggest building a megalithic structure…? This connects to the discussions on technology and knowledge.

  7. There should be a possibility, however small, and however discreet, for problematic concepts like human sacrifices and even cannibalism (of a religious kind). As pointed out by several persons, this can be a big problems both for some players and for the game’s rating and even reputation. There is however no reason why these concepts should be openly shown or even mentioned. In one case, the game might simply show an event saying “Ugga-Bugga, 17, has passed away”. Whether or not Ugga-Bugga died of starvation, or was sacrificed by his starving tribe members to the gods of food, is left to the player’s imagination. Another option is to do make it slightly more open, but still euphemistic: “Ugga-Bugga, 24, has given his life to [the gods]/[the god X]”. Regardless, it seems most players, and potential players, would agree that taking away the ability to sacrifice at all (be it wine, food, gold, or a pair of turtle doves), would take away a lot of the historical realism of the game.

3 Likes

The way I see it, if we start the game from the dawn of civilisation then players should be able to place the founding stones however they choose dependent on the available technology and likely thinking.

There is bugbear with this, our player driven root up societies may progress not to resemble any historically evident culture. Some might argue this makes the game ahistorical but I do not.

Players may develop a society with a dominant matriarchy. Primitive tribal cultures on these lines do exist. However player choice could then maintain that during the technological curve and create an ahistorical but systemically and logically founded Amazon society.
Player choice could lead to lobsided technological development, early literacy or even democracy, because democracy also does exist in some primitive tribes and thus could be a foundational tenet of a society. Monotheism is also an advance that could be seminal in a people group.

This could head in any direction and religion is the key, religion will be based on immediate observables, but with players able to choose how these observables are interpreted and in establishing a heirarchy of importance will shape the thinking of the society.

1 Like

This is one subject that does not die. :slight_smile:

1 Like

Sorry, I’m late to the party.

From the article - I’d wager that the two main reasons they don’t have religion is the “no coercion rule”, as (forced) evangelism is an important component of any major religion that wants to last more than a few generations in any recognizable form, and the fact that they seem to have no war against superior opponents, thus making their culture seem complete (Asian cultures were similar, until the West showed up with warships and threatened to use them).

1 Like

How do you mean Asian cultures were similar to the Pirahã until the arrival of the West in terms of religion? Zoroastrianism dominated much of the Middle East until the arrival of Islam, Hinduism maintains a powerful presence across Indian society as was for thousands of years, even China and Japan have folk Religions that predate Buddhism.

The Middle East and Indians may be on the Asian continent, but they are not usually considered Asian.

I meant they were similar as far as seeing their culture as “complete”; they are not similar in terms of religion as the Pirahã don’t have any.

i would like to see kind of random religions where the player has a bit controll over, that u just doing a thing and ur villagers just do random shit 1 day.