Religion

AC Feedback and Suggestions
62

Also such a delicate issue…

The plastic of the time before the oil, indispensable and essential!

:grin: Five extra hearts for that

On the subject, most of it has already been mentioned, think rituals are a good start. We know that ancestors were revered. Partially, their skulls were carried along. People lived in harmony with nature, presumably similar to earlier Indians. The observation of the stars and the course and position of the sun were important. Like the moon phases. On the one hand for the determination of the season and the division of time sequences at all. The knowledge of such things certainly meant respect, if not power or even magic. Recurring constellations have certainly been kept in the memory - also by rituals. The best time for sowing, the days what calling in german “Schwendt” (Test sowing to determine, which fruits or grain would best germinate next year), the best time to beat wood and, of course, the turn of the sun.
Religion or belief in something higher requires people to answer questions to which they themselves can find no answer. Prayers are, in principle, what we would today be titled with Autosuggestion. There is weaker courage because they feel helped.
Let us also consider what frightened us as a child. A thunderstorm, darkness in the forest, noises we could not associate with, eerie stories told … a good breeding ground for superstition, the little sister of faith.
The winners at all times were the people who were not afraid and tried to explain it logically. “Do not be afraid, for I tell you …” certainly existed at that time too.

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63

Linen, and therefore flax, is truly a underestimated material today, and also in our knowledge of history, culture and other things… no flax in Banished for example!
The plastic of the time before the oil, indispensable and essential!

I am not sure flax was used with such intensity, in lieu of other materials. While flax was commonly used and an amazing material, if you have ever spun, woven, and sewn with it, you quickly find that the time required is VERY extensive. I can make a loincloth from tanned leather (including tanning) in a few weeks… but most of that time isn’t spent doing anything. Scraping, removing hair, and cutting take a few hours. Tanning with bark/leaves takes a while… but you don’t need to do much (have a coffee lol).

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Note: I love flax and spin,weave, sew with it all of the time, but leather’s easier lol

Making a loincloth via flax takes 100+ days to grow, a few days to harvest and ret, maybe 3 hours to thresh, scutch, and comb. After that, maybe 8-16 hours to make enough yarn. Several days to weave a large enough panel.

So it was used, but leather was probably more useful en masse.

This is why I am so annoyed by illustrations depicting women in full length linen dresses, during the summer… =/ They do it for modesty (because people seem afraid of the human form) but it’s really inaccurate =/

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cannibalism
Also such a delicate issue…

Cannibalism, especially ritualistic cannibalism, has been observed throughout many societies. During the Neolithic, the presence of cannibalism has been detected in several locations, perhaps most famously among the Linear Pottery Culture in Herxheim, Germany. While the modern world may regard the practice of cannibalism as abhorrent, its frequency throughout human history and evidence throughout prehistory suggest that not all cultures view the practice similarly.

Given the examples of cannibalism within the Linear Pottery Culture, it can be supposed that the practice would be less alien to her than it might be to contemporary cultures. It should also be noted that cannibalism occurs even to this very day in several contemporary tribal cultures throughout the world, as well as symbolically in many major religions.

64

Rituals might add some real lifeblood and amazement to the game!

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Ritual examples:

People dance in fields before planting and harvest. Each wears a wreath of the crop around their head. Their bodies painted in earthy ocher.

Coming of age. Young men and women dance around a fire with elders nearby and village gathered. After that, the new adults call out potential suitors. Will they be rejected? People are dressed in the most elaborate outfits they can make.

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Fertility rituals. Everyone gathers to watch dancers divided into male and female. Dancers wear paints and many wild plants. Food present.

Prepare for war! Warriors paint themselves in black soot and dance with weapons until elders are satisfied and bless each warrior with a sacred branch (brush the bad things away).

Funeral. The body is placed before the tribe and each person visits it for a last word. The shaman paints the body and it is placed in a grave with items for the next world.

Also, consider that many Native American people were said to perform rituals during the day for so many daily things. Villagers should be seen doing little rituals now and then.

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65

… there are many puzzles. Considering the fact that even in the recent past in the greatest need of the meat of comrades was used as a food (polar expeditions, aircraft crashes in the wildness, war imprisonment) seems a primordial instinct of the human cannibalism as an option to affirm. Reachable, edible, nutritious, keeps me alive.
For us with full shelves of a supermarket - igitt, unimaginable.

Don´t know, Wiki say: Gemeiner Lein – Wikipedia
The oldest archaeological linseed finds are from Ali Kosh in Iran (7500-6700 BC) and from Çayönü in Southeast Turkey (around 7000 BC). The linseed are, however, so small that they are assigned to the wild flax (Linum bienne). In Tell Ramad in Syria, in a period of 6200 to 6100 BC, The flax seed found near the size of the common linen. Other early sites are at the upper reaches of the Tigris, in the foothills of the Zāgros and Syria. A reference in Greece (Sesklo, Peloponnese) is estimated at 5500 BC. Two sites in Bulgaria on 4800 and 4600 v. Chr. [22] Genetic studies have shown that the common cord originates from wild lynx by a single domestication event. The first use, according to these studies, was the use of the seeds. [23]

The oldest finds of linen processing are linen from Egypt from the beginning of the 4th millennium BC, They come from El Badâri in Upper Egypt. On 3500 to 3000 v. The linen cloth from el-Gebelên in the Libyan desert is dated. From the fourth dynasty, mummies have been preserved from linen. Also from the Old Reich are pictorial representations of the flax harvest. Several seeds and capsules were found from the Middle Reich as burial objects. [22]

After the middle of Europe the flax with the band ceramic culture (ca. 5700 to 4100 BC) was grown on the loess surface north of the Danube up to the north of France. The flax was introduced somewhat later in the shore and pile dwelling settlements at Lake Constance and the Swiss lakes. According to Ireland and Scotland, linen came about 1800 BC, In northern Germany and Scandinavia he is only from the Iron Age, from about 500 v. But it was in full bloom during the Roman Empire (1st to 3rd century AD). [22]

66

I am not saying flax was not used, just that I don’t see it as displacing leather and being a miracle material due to the effort used to cultivate it.

It’s actually quite labor intensive =/
(I work with it often)

As for Herxhiem, cannibalism is often found to be ritualistic. It doesn’t always serve the nutritional need.

67

You certainly have more experience in handling flax. I have only a little researched and seen the application of flax in many museums. To this the admixture of the logical human understanding of a layman …:rolling_eyes:
Most frequently, I saw flax in connection with “threads”, “ropes” and “oils”.

no, not always. On this subject the experts are very divided. In a game it would also be something “shocking”. Let’s forget it first.

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68

Even today the core of one of the major religions is a soft ritual of cannibalism: “Eat the body and drink the blood”.
Anyway if we add cannibalism of any sort it will be in the rated DLC, we know it is sensible stuff.

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69

lol

I completely agree about the symbolic nature of some rituals. I actually have a chapter with neolithic cannibles in my last book. Defintly something for DLC, but not your general release. =/

70

I desperately want there to be a religious component to the game. As mentioned in earlier threads, religion was an essential need to peoples of the Neolithic time period. This allowed them to feel an sense of belonging and know that they were not alone in a vast world where death could come from any direction at any time. Their religious beliefs drove their behaviors and moral compasses allowing for specific traditions and behaviors to become common place.

If there is no religious component to the game I feel that that detracts from the Neolithic realism that this game is going for and I truly hope that you can fit it into the mechanics. I do have some ideas about the mechanics, but without knowing the other mechanics the ideas may be flawed. Please, please, please find a way to fit religion into the game!

Thank you AC for all of your hard work to make this awesome game into a reality! ^.^

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71

I totally agree with you – and as the devs spoke about religion in their interviews, I think they agree also.

Regarding your suggestions, I think you should not hesitate to present them (like I did here on the same topic). We know a few weeks/months ago the devs still had some gameplay aspects to think at, so either this comes too late, either this may help to feel a blank, but if this allow to elaborate on it, or if even a tiny piece of your ideas is according to the general gameplay or state of advancement and is judged interesting, this is always positive.

So please don’t hesitate!

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72

Earthen mounds, generous God’s and evil gods. Many people believed in rather sadistic gods to explain why bad events occurred. Including these kinds of aspects and making possibly customizable by either the player or shaped by the tribe in the game itself would be great. I would personally really like to have the option around an option for no religion.

Keep up the great work in the game!

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73

It may not work so easily. For the character image (motivation) of the NPC’s an alternative would have to be found at this point. Or?

74

It might not. I remember sometime over summer the devs did not have a decision on religion, atheism and if religion could be turned on or off. Has there been any change in their stance?

75

I’m not against the no-religion feature, despite that would (probably) be anachronistic.

However, if religion is well implemented, it should have an incidence on every aspect of the game, as this is effectively the case in every traditional society. Then this would mean the game would be a total hell to balance.

Just to take an example, imagining a very basic system where choosing to revere such main spirit instead of another one to gain such modifier instead of another one, not having this feature would make your game much harder.

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76

Good point. Maybe it’s best for religion to only impact shrines, structure, war paint or visual aspects along those lines. Are the devs considering having regions provide perks? I think that might take away a bit from the accurasy/realism.

77

I don’t think it would be an anachronistim to have an atheist Society insomuch as we have already found the incidence of at least one tribe in the Amazon who has no concept of religion or spirituality, and presumably have not for a significant period of time. I think we can safely say, upon examining the totality of cultures and societies of which we do have information that this is certainly uncommon, and potentially even unique. Of course I support the idea of a religion on off switch, and I do believe it is completely plausible that it may have existed, but even I must stress how unlikely its prevalence would have been.

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78

Can you point us to some reference about that tribe?

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79

I can look for better referencese when I get home. The tribe is listed below. Quite an interating people, and perhaps unique.

80

I just read the article and it said they “have no concept of a supreme god or spirit” but they do believe in “spirits that can sometimes take on the shape of things in the environment”, which resembles most animistic religions. Humans are a most complex being, and religion is (often? always?) needed to explain things primitive knowledge cannot explain.

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81

They are atheist, as they don’t believe in God’s, and they might be considered areligious, as they don’t appear to have a concise religion; however, it does seem that they have a level of spirituality. I’m pretty certain that the invention of Gods to explain the unknown is almost completely Universal among our species, but these people do show that it is quite possible to have a society that is not theistic nor has any sort of developed religion. While this is definitely animism, it does not seem as pronounced as other forms which often have developed religions.

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