Ritual Sacrifices (no Religion topic!)

@badbear

Please dude, chill out.

@tschuschi used a very common practice: a question between brackets is a very common way to indicate the writer doesn’t have any answer to the very question he’s asking.

Regarding his whole sentence

you conveniently choose to erase the “s” to divert what he means and try to make us believe he speaks about God. This is clearly visible in your own sentence

As for the next sentence, you’re trying to impose us your own conception of the world:

I understand the faulty “he” (instead of “He”!) as God himself. If this is well the case you’re totally hurting my own conception of the world with such an unproven affirmation.


I really don’t want this forum to become one where someone may impose his personal view of the world to an entire community that’s not here to suffer any form of proselytism – whatever religious, atheist or political proselytism.

So, please, very please: just erase your posts, I’m sure @tschuschi may agree to erase “(by a few clever fanatics)” if you consider this may be hurting, I’ll erase my own post. Then every personal grudge may be forgotten and this thread may come back to the stated topic: ritual sacrifices.
If this is not done, you’ll oblige the devs to have a strong moderation policy, which will take a part of their time, and as such be negative for both A.C. development and the discussions related to the game.

5 Likes

This statement is true, I agree komplete.[quote=“badbear, post:54, topic:2380”]
Are you mocking Christ, Christians, or the far right Christians which ever believe has?
[/quote]
No, I doubt only in much the objectivity of the respective author

Think this bomb was fired a long time ago and so slowly we recover from the consequences
In my youth I had to deal with the subject of the Bible - and those who firmly believe in it. The strongest impression of this has emerged - intollerance and fanaticism. Pardon. The Old Testament touches the game later in the game. Think of Moses and the book-judges and Isaiah.
Please feel not attacked, that was not the goal.

Think,with this we can live well and meet as equal partners :wink:

Let us stay relaxed. Controversial opinions are the salt in the soup. It is a delicate issue, of which we should be aware. We should also be aware of the fact that we are part of the development of a game that could shock us (maybe) if it were 100% realistic.

1 Like

We know this can be a very sensible topic for some people but lets calm down, please.
The game is intended to be historical, so it have to depict spiritualism and cosmology of the people whose life is trying to depict, as a game play feature but also as a educational tool.

This game is not subscribed to any present religion or belief so it has not to make happy any of them. Our limit in the representation is budget, development time, research, game play issues and rating ( and this is only because commercial issues and fixed by a properly rated DLC ).

In ancient times belief system was so related with every aspect of life ( and still is today for some people ) that would be a simulation destroyer to keep it apart. We plan to have a way to turn it off belief system as a way to configure the game difficulty, but not as a way to make people who feels bad about playing a game depicting a belief system not compatible with his own. We don’t know at this stage if that option would be available or not.

Keep in mind that our XXI century view of the world can not be used to recreate ancient people behaviour and so it is not a proper tool to judge them.

Of course we don’t intent to offed anyone, but we like to take seriously the historical aspect, as we told before, with its lights and shadows, and shadows are also very important to understand the past. That understanding we think is a good tool to help us to be more critic with our present and our own belief system.

14 Likes

You are right about the pope, but its also true that most of the common people who joined the crusaded did it moved by their faith.
Anyway it was an historical example about strong belief or faith changing the course of an historical event without adding supernatural powers to the mix.
I used this example because I love the first crusade history, so related stuff its the first to come to my mind when looking for examples. Antioquia siege is a perfect case to illustrate this, not only because the faith involved, but also as an example of faith manipulation.

4 Likes

A post was split to a new topic: The First Crusade - and other historical stuff -

I agree with the other posters: let us calm down. And let us not even refer to current religions, be it Christianity, Islam, Judaism or any other one, in any way that could be considered unnecessary or demeaning or belittling. It just leads to conflicts, needlessly. It is a sensitive topic, so if we feel we need to mention something that can be construed as “Islam is a myth” or “Judaism was built by clever fanatics”… there are surely better ways of phrasing it, that wouldn’t make the adherents of any major religion feel bad. Not to mention that all major religion were formed long, long after the game’s time frame. So let’s think before we bring them up :stuck_out_tongue:

1 Like

I also think we should wait until we have a first impression of the playable version. Perhaps, the religious influence on the game is not so important as in our present assumptions.

What did he mean? The fact that he used my post how can it not be about what I believe in? [quote=“louis.mervoyer, post:57, topic:2380”]
ke the topic on gender, this one is very sensitive because religion is a part of us. As an atheist, I never try to persuade someone who belive in god that there is no god because for him god is a part of himself it cannot be remove. I only fight back if they try to convert me.

However, I think belief in general was very important in History and is a must have in this game. Most of man greast creation (in this time) were link to religion/belief. Stone temples like the one in England or Malta are good examples.

Moreover, a lot of european pagan belief/festivals had been incorporate in Christian religion :

  • Chrismas was the winter festival, when you can see the sun rise again in the sky
  • Saint John’s Eve was the harvest festival
  • The Annunciation was the Vernal equinox celebration

I understand that your belief made you uneasy to “play” with religion but these ancient beliefs are part of your History and part of your religion History. If they are remove it will feel very unrealistic.

I think most people do not care if there is a religion different from their own in a game. Afterall nobody asks them to believe in it and it is just a game.

I would be very disappointed if religion were remove due to this concern.
[/quote]

I have repeatedly stated I do not want the game restricted by my believes.[quote=“Elfryc, post:58, topic:2380”]
As for the next sentence, you’re trying to impose us your own conception of the world:
[/quote]

Do I impose or are you failing to read the whole post in which at the end state [quote=“badbear, post:56, topic:2380”]
As the statement “Everyone must believe for themselves” this is very true and they must choose what to believe in and as such how they will play the game.
[/quote][quote=“Elfryc, post:58, topic:2380”]

I understand the faulty “he” (instead of “He”!) as God himself. If this is well the case you’re totally hurting my own conception of the world with such an unproven affirmation.
[/quote] You are right I might have done a better with the word “he” but the rest is biblical sound. The following versus "2 Timothy 3:16-17 says “All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.”
2 Peter 1:21 says “For prophecy never had its origin in the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.” Enough said.

You are so right and yet when ever this post is more or less closed by the following example;

More post pop up with my posts as the centre piece. If you are annoyed good, so am I. I have stated many times this is not about my belief but about what is best for the game and my point about was originally about cannibalism and it has spiralled out of control from there. So who is wrong?

This is not the place to discuss personal beliefs, not for comments about other people personal beliefs.
Please, stay on topic and discuss only about the gameplay you would like to see in the game.

5 Likes

So…The conclusion is :
-Rituals such as food and object offerings would be part of the base game
-Human sacrifices are part of a ‘‘Realism’’ DLC

5 Likes

yeah probably… we will have to wait for realism (at least this part) in DLC. I am quite dissapointed, but will wait how it develops… people nowadays are so oversensitive and easily offended :confused:

4 Likes

Since there will be a “realism” DLC, could we have a “fantasy” DLC with dragons & voodoo? :nerd_face:

Nope :wink:

12 Likes

Lol… :sneezing_face:

1 Like

It does not really fit in this thread, right?
Just found an interesting recession about “Hellblade” - the question of how our ancestors perceived the world. U.a. “The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind” (Julian Jaynes) Unfortunately in German…

http://videogametourism.at/content/stimmen-hoeren-hellblade-zeigt-uns-ein-anderes-bewusstsein

Drag link directly into the browser :rolling_eyes:

I will try to read it using translator.
Wish me luck :laughing: !

( … )

Done
German to English seems to work lot better than whatever to Spanish!

Personally I agree that ancient inner mind has little to do with current mind. Almost every speculation I have read about, even based in current tribal societies, remark this point. How to translate this to the game, if doable at all, is another thing :wink:

2 Likes

For a construction sim, it is certainly hardly usable. But from the philosophical side, I found this approach exciting. It would explain the close connection to the ancestors. If such experiences were “normal” at this time, that would explain the lack of doubt that is “normal” in our time.

If we think of phenomena like Nostradamus, Jeanne d’arc or Rasputin etc., this would mean NPCs with extraordinary mental abilities in the game.
How the player understands and applies this - and if and how it affects the gameplay - (?). Do we have to think … maybe it will help later in the game?

This book also have a nice elaboration about the Neolithic mind. It elaborates that induced altered states of consciousness were normal and interpreted as doors to other worlds. It also elaborates a nice theory on how “religion” started to form from those altered states.

2 Likes

Sorry for the useless comment, but reading this made me flinch in the worst way possible :confounded:

2 Likes