Neolithic Clothing in the Game?

Let’s talk about the weight of 500 clay beads, which, as you correctly mention, only provide insufficient protection.
Why should I consider such a thing? I love speculation, but in the end you have to judge it practically, right? Think, there is the edge of the plate a bit high, rather a clay vase …:grin:

Ok. First when we look at possibilities of use of an item we have to look at the people who had it and what it could be used for. The first trap assumption for beads is to assume point blank that beads = decoration. We dont know that. Logically however you get that with smaller number of beads in a single find, a dozen is decoration, but several hundred large beads, and the ones lotus253 are making are large is a lot, where ten will cover the width of the neck of a mannequin. This must weigh quite a bit. It could be purely decorative, but with this much effort there might be more going on.

Now the second mental trap other than preconceptions of use of beads as decoration is the preconceptions of use of armour. Neolithic tribes were unlikely to wage war with any frequency. Humans are by far the most dangerous prey, they would require ambush attacks and skirmishing at most., skills based on hunting.
Carniverous prey animals/ random encounters will likely be the single largest combat related hazard.

Now something like a lion has very specific attack patterns it uses againt a human, this is VERY well documented by the Roman bestiarii and the information is directly transferable. Armour of nearly any kind is hopeless against large herbiverous megafauna due to impact trauma that they largely rely on. However carniverous megafauna like lions, leopards and such would be a major threat to hunters, and are not something one can negotiate with, they can outrun humans and cant necessarily be avoided. This is doubly so if the hunter is bringing home a kill of his own and a big cat smells the carcass. I summise that predatory cats possibly bears and canids will be a problem.

Heavy furs are commonly used as deference against animal attack, with particular attention to a heavy collar and cumberband, this might not be practical in warm climate so other things may be needed. Now we know as flat fact that large cats tend to either attack the neck or rake the stomach to disembowel. A necklace of heavy beads will very likely get in the way of a bite, and a pectoral with beads will likely interfere with claws.

Beads have long been associated with protection across several cultures. Why is this? Is it a throwback to an earlier defensive effect. A long string of beads wrapped around the neck several times doesnt look like armour, but could well save a hunters life, a hunter may well want a daughter to wear.

Ancient peoples didnt weigh themselves down with junk, decoration happened but it had to be at least semi functional. How a ritual costume can be cumbersome and hat can account for heavy beads, but it doesnt necessarily explain why they made beads to begin with.

We see ancient jewellery and it tended to be finely decorative. Against decorative jewellery tended to be fine, if one was to make large clay beads one would want to cover them with markings and not leave them as plain and round.

If the images that lotus253 are based on recovered artifacts then plain undecorated beads then I suspect they had a practical purpose. Humans don’t make stuff like that for decoration without decorating them. Paint possibly, but for clay the first option is to cover them with patterns.

Chain mail - unfortunately we are still in the Neolithic. Hope too, that we still get there …:wink:

What is silk used for? If your mind goes to stocking and nice dresses then might be interested to know that it was prior to this used as fine ropes and armour. Asiatic peoples wore silk shirts because bowfire would enter the wound without penetrating the silk driving the silk into the wound, this meant an arrow would not penetrate far and could be easily withdrawn for a clean wound.

Now to look at a silk shirt the fact that is very good armour is possibly the last thing on your mind. We would not know this was true had not history told us.
I look at a very large quantity of large beads and see options.

Probably one of the biggest problems is that the clay is typically around. A projectile, such as an arrow, will not ricochet off of the armor… Instead, the round beads will help Force the arrow into the victim at a better orthogonal angle. In effect, bead armor will make it easier to hit you.

Actually the roundness has the opposite effect. Decorative clay beads are often tubular or lighter as you can get more coverage for less material, yours are exclusively rounded thick and heavy, this makes them very sturdy the right sort of thing you want in the way when a lion is trying to get its jaws around your neck.

No protection from arrows though, but then I was at pains to clarify from the beginning, on several posts on the subject that I propose it to most likely be effective against animal attack injuries not battlefield injuries

Now if the beads were constructed more like rings, sort of like a ring mail, that might work.

This is an extrapolation, and is why I asked about the numbers of beads being found in sites. If beads were found a dozen at a time, necklace or bracelet. Moving on. But hundreds? That is either a costly weighty decoration that you don’t want wearing most of the time or something with a second undisclosed function. We have surviving beads but not surviving connecting cord. A mail shirt of large beads is possible, protective gorget, pectoral or cumberband more likely.

However I would need more evidence before I advanced that as an option. Body armour need not be effective against all weapons, but a web of large beads might have effect against slashing damage and thus would have value worn or woven into furs which are weak with regards to that particular defence.

Take these chappies:

Napoleonic era French Hussar and Cuirassier. The Cuirassier is clearly armoured, he has a breastplate and backplate to his cuirass and a metal helmet. This made him expensive to equip. Austrian cuirassiers only had a breastplate and helmet, and were vulnerable to a backhanded passing attack from the sabre of a better armed French cuirassier. For armoured horsemen of the time this was as good as it got, the cheek strap was also armoured and the fabric was heavy but all the cost went into protecting the head neck and body from both sides with steel. One could of course have better armour than that, such as knightly armour, but on a cost to effect basis you have enough with what you had. Cuirassiers qualified as heavy cavalry and had clear advantage on the battlefield in melee.

Now observe the Hussar next to him and his traditional look of the jacket half off the shoulder. This is in fact armour. The Hussar is also effectively armoured, the half off jacket is in fact a heavy cloth leather and padding protection to cover the left shoulder . The Cuirassier had metal to protect there as part of his overall ‘defensive package’ the Hussar only had his decorative suave overhang. But when facing a sabre armed horseman the diagonal downward swipe to the shoulder is the single easiest, fastest and most deadly attack, and the Hussar was singly protected to defend against it if nothing else.

Now to a modern eye the actuality of the Hussars defence is very easily overlooked, it appears to be purely decorative, a feature of light cavalry, but it was an effective armour defence against other light sword cavalry.

The point being, we don’t easily see what we are looking at if we overlook the possibilities. I suggest that reconstructive history needs to think outside the box. Something seemingly decorative might have protective qualities, just like the Hussar’s shoulder garb.

… and is lighter than clay balls and more effective against slash, stab and punch.
And I’m a Neolithic farmer who occasionally goes hunting with his neighbors (because of the lions, wolves and bears always as a group, armed with solid spears) and my wife calls after me: Hey, forget about your clay bullet not … I’m sorry, it may be that there were some exotics, but I’ve never heard of clay armor on a larger scale. Fabric and leather, bones / fish bones, bark and wood chips on fabric and later bronze alloys are known. But if the game allows, anyone can test it the way he thinks.

I would say that if you are a hunter, the last thing you want to wear is a heavy and noisy thing like clay all around. Clay is also very fragile, and will make not difference at all between you and an arrow, an axe or a lion attack. It will just make you slower.
Now, you can see with our modern mind clay as a non decorative item, but for a Neolithic mind such a thing, which requires lots of work to make, could be just the opposite.
To wear all that weigh from a fragile material like clay has not any practical purpose other than to wear it.

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The clay I’m using isn’t that heavy. It’s hard to be exactly sure, but the whole entire garment should weigh less than 5 lb. You’re completely correct that the clay beads are quite fragile. Someone could walk around in a fertility festival with them, but they wouldn’t stand up to the woods. Worse, they’re liable to be quite noisy.

As both and Archer and now someone who works with clay, it’s definitely not the way I would go.

You can so clay beads to clothing, but that’s mostly for decoration. There’s always the possibility that Neolithic people may have believed that certain beads had spiritual powers, but I doubt we’ll ever be able to deduce whether or not this is true.

I should point out that I went one time into the woods wearing Neolithic clothing and carrying my bow. I spent quite a while Into the Night. Wearing leather makes me quite quiet. of course this is a good thing as I wouldn’t want to bump into anyone else in the woods dressed like that LOL

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Two questions/points:

  • @Uncasual spoke of clay as fragile, but what if they’re baked? After all, clay tablets, bricks etc. are quite invulnerable when being baked, so maybe this would help making them more resistant, even if there’s to take into account the void inside?

  • @lotus253 I’ve spent some time trying to find more information, related to the “practicity” of your bean work. My naïve question was “how is the model supposed to have the arms raised with the jewelry as such, if she has to perform a ritual or something similar?”
    Then I remembered of one thing I heard at the Uni about graves: there were very long metal needles found in some tombs, things as long as 30 cm if I remember correctly, worn on the front part of each shoulder. Practically, the teacher said it was impossible to wore them this way when being alive, as you could injure yourself very dangerously. So, this was a burial jewelry, maybe a sign of kins having spent some time just to honor the memory of the dead.

Unfortunately I have to curse myself real hard, as I can’t remember who was the teacher who spoke about that, as it would help to find the period: maybe Bronze/Iron Ages if it was in a Protohistory lesson, or Merovingian/Carolingian if it was in Middle Ages archaeology, but sure not Gallo-Roman as I never did that. I know, that’s vague :blush:

Then there’s also this paragraph in Demoule (§8.1)

The oldest funeral ritual we currently know would date back to 300,000 years ago. A community of Homo erectus, in Sierra Atapuerca (near Burgos) laid down their dead in a cavity in limestone. Aside the bodies was left a beautiful biface made within a reddish quartzite, that had never been used. This shows there was a feeling the dead couldn’t be left, and something had to be done with them.

Can’t this point to some jewelry items that could be used the same way in Neolithic, not intended at all to be worn but only used as burial presents?

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Backed clay is harder, true, it is resistant to high temperatures and it will not be destroyed by moisture or water, but let’s remember what even a stone arrow can do to a skull, and bone is way more resistant than baked clay:

fce18e5968b42424543741cb7c005ec1--indian-artifacts-ancient-artifacts

Even backed clay will not hold behind an axe, an arrow or a beast, unless we are talking about very very thick pieces, just not possible to wear all around.

It is not mandatory to raise arms, that’s a very much a Hollywood scene.

This could be very possible in my opinion.

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I very well agree that some of these items may have been completely for burial practices. In fact we have found large numbers of beads in purposeful patterns as Grave Goods in multiple inhumations.

She could lift her arms from the elbow, but not at the shoulder more than a small bit. this would be something somebody might wear at a ritual. She might stand wearing it and perhaps sing or simply observe a ritual. It’s otherwise impractical for anything else.

But of course, ritual garments are often impractical. shortening it by just a few in so it covers only the very top of her shoulders would allow her to lift her arms, and perhaps such variations were made.

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I am definitely a fan of raised arms in rituals, but you are completely correct that there is no overt reason to raise arms. one reason we think about arm raising is that many deities that are worshipped today would be classified as Sky gods, those who are omnipresent but typically thought of as being up and in the heavens above.

Neolithic people may have been more animistic. They may have worshipped idols and other things much more directly observable, such as an altar. the truth is, we don’t know how their religion function and the best we can do is make a series of educated guesses

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On an unrelated side note, I have hand-spun 6 yards of wool with a Neolithic drop spindle while reading these discussions LOL

I’m the first guilty to have some animations already in game with raised arms :wink:
At the end its also a way to communicate to the player, and today that’s something everybody understands.

But of course we don’t know how it was, and raised arms could have not been part of any ritual.

Looking for Neolithic figurines, as a way to look at first hand positions that someone decided to depict, we find lots of crossed arms, lots of 90 degrees raised arms, but few fully raised arms.

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Crossed is extremely common. That might partially have to do with the firing of the clay and the fragility of raised arms, but it’s also probably indicative of their religious belief.

On a side note about baking clay, everyone of my 560 beads will be baked at 1500F to 1800F. This definitely makes the clay much harder, but it is still somewhat brittle. I am using 06 cone clay. The minimum temperature I’m supposed to achieve is 1850 f. I am able to make a substandard pot, but I should at least achieve 2500 f if I wanted a really strong modern pot. Neolithic Pottery simply doesn’t have the strength that even bronze or Iron Age Pottery does.

I should make a subtopic on Neolithic figurines and begin posting pictures of them and their Associated cultural groups. This may provide you with some additional insight. This won’t be too much trouble as I already collect pictures of them to use in my reproductions.


these are both reproductions, and I’m sure you’ve probably seen the original that they’re based off of

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It’s fun I’ve never thought of raised arms as a modern gesture.

I know that in Mesopotamia most statues or depictions with one raised hand are considered as praying the gods. There’s one famous statue (supposedly Hammu-rabi of Babylon) doing this gesture, like on his code of law:

(this one I don’t know if it’s really Hammu-rabi, but the source tells this)

On the contrary, the older Gudea of Lagash statues always depict him with joint hands on the stomach, sometimes with his temple plan on the knees, but this could also be seen e.g. as a symbol of his calm or his wisdom.

http://www.weblettres.net/blogs/uploads/m/madamelevy/44938.bmp

And I don’t remember having ever seen a Pharaoh statue having raised hands above the head, save when using this mace, like on Narmer’s palette – contrary to our modern politicians or teachers, trying to convince and raise attention of their public.

So maybe you could be right with the gesture. Probably there’s something to look at here :+1:

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The reality is that we have no idea what they did. They probably did many different things, depending on which culture. I’m looking at my mannequin right now and I realize that if her arms lifted, the loops would roll up her arms and bunch at the top, beads actually acting like little wheels. I think she probably could raise her arms, but she wouldn’t want to do it very fast or very often.

I am hand weaving a ceremonial loincloth from wool, hopefully completely hand-spun, to go with the outfit. I’ve made many practical Neolithic outfits, so it’s time for an impractical ceremonial gown


This is practical spring wear. No shoes are needed because the ground around the tribe is soft. But leather shawl keeps her warm, but she can remove it later in the day when it gets warm and then added again when it gets cold at night. The simple linen skirt keeps her modesty and is comfortable to work in.


Well not impractical from the purposes of Mobility, this ritualistic outfit is more suited for a fertility ritual to ensure the wheat grows well. The body paints would easily smear and some of the jewelry is quite fragile, so even though the simple string skirts is very easy and comfortable to maneuver in, the entire ensemble is effectively not okay for normal use.

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I wanted to point out that garments like the one I am making are quite common in later societies. I found some nice examples from ancient Egypt. You’ll notice that these are shorter than what I drew and would be referred to as pectorals, while what I drew is probably more properly referred to as a capelet

These are obviously thousands of years later than my making, but it shows an interest in this kind of garment. The first image is actually only about two or 3 inches shorter than my making.

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Funnily enough, I was working on the other aspect of things, raised hands. That’s in fact quite common – for instance in ancient Egypt. But most of the time they are people presenting something, either to a god or a greater character, or making a peculiar gesture which is instantly recognizable. They may present a plate, may bear something like a god/sky symbol, etc.

However, there’s a but – and an interesting one for sure:

Source: paulsmit Photo Keywords: mourning, no people
Those are mourning people – and this instantly reminded me of this gesture depicted in the Bible (and also in some Mesopotamian letters, if I remember correctly) in case of mourning: tearing apart the clothes and putting ashes on one’s head.

So clearly everything tends to show that’s a rare gesture – but that’s even rare today, in our modern world, to raise both hands, save in peculiar contexts: when threatening, when dancing at a concert, when wining a gold medal at PyeonChang, when in a political meeting, when making an explanation that we want to be very demonstrative (“On the upper part/at the beginning”, etc.).

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Keep in mind that the garment that I’m making is a mixture of figurine depiction as well is a little guesswork. It is completely possible that the garment that I’m making never existed, the certainly thing similar to it probably did.

I have considered the possibility that a woman to be wed might wear something like what I’ve designed. Perhaps in a joining ceremony she need not raise her hands. The practical garments are commonplace in ceremonies. I may also decide to simply make the garment slit open on the sides allowing the arms to rise. We shall see.

There is a mixture of personal artistry as well as prehistoric fact mixed together in a re-creation like this. A simple leather skirt or flax shawl is much less inspirational and more directly supported by evidence.

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There’s also to consider the fact that Neolithic spanned several centuries and several cultures and populations, and even if they were far less numerous than us, we’ve got so few traces left until our times that probably they also had personal tastes, and personal reasons to do this or that – even for short term and as mundane considerations as being pretty/handsome for such occasion, etc.

Well, time I go to bed…
'Night! (or rather 'Day/Evening? Well, too tired to check :face_with_raised_eyebrow:)

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I would say that if you are a hunter, the last thing you want to wear is a heavy and noisy thing like clay all around. Clay is also very fragile, and will make not difference at all between you and an arrow, an axe or a lion attack. It will just make you slower.

While jewellery can rattle a bit it doesn’t really do so when worn. Clay used as protection is likely no different, these are large beads, you can also silence beads by interspacing them with knots…

As for fragility, well they are rounded and should be pretty solid when fired. I can see them being rather sturdy and bulky but not too heavy if worn where needed.

A lion when trying to rip your throat out and getting a mouthful of large beads instead doesnt sound unreasonable. Studies of armouring details throughout history have shown that effective protection comes from unlikely sources that are not immediately apparent.

Backed clay is harder, true, it is resistant to high temperatures and it will not be destroyed by moisture or water, but let’s remember what even a stone arrow can do to a skull, and bone is way more resistant than baked clay:
Even backed clay will not hold behind an axe, an arrow or a beast, unless we are talking about very very thick pieces, just not possible to wear all around.

Repeating again.

Not all armour is to protect against the same things. Arrows are not a problem for primitive hunters, animal attacks are. Conversely arrows were the major threat to Mongol horse archers and their silk armour was effective against it.
It is not a logical dismissal to say that an armouring would be ineffective if it didn’t stop stone arrowheads.

I am not saying that beads were armour, I am keeping my mind open on the matter and exploring the hypothesis. However dismissals so far are not based on any presentable logic. That isnt a good way to do science.

Sounds reasonable :+1:


I have gone back and reworked what my re-creation of a early Neolithic ceremonial upper garment might look like. Again, this is entirely speculative based off of various parts from many different figurines. This is not meant to be an absolute direct representation as it’s almost impossible to know exactly what their clothing looked like, anyway.

You’ll notice that she can now lift her arms without problem. The simple capelet, or shawl if you like, is a pattern or style that has been used for as long as clothing has been documented, and probably longer than that. I make so many lower garments that I figured I should make something nice for the top. In warmer weather, upper garments really serve no purpose until some sort of artificial modesty is imposed. This is one of the reasons I haven’t made that many upper-body garments. You don’t find them in parallel North American societies for that time period, for the most part, so I would doubt you would find them in the Neolithic.


The beads are getting a final heat treatment to remove moisture. Over two hours I slowly increase the temperature to 500 degrees F, which I left them at for an additional 3 or 4 hours. This increases the likelihood of them surviving the firing on Monday.

I will document how long it took to make everything to give an accurate time frame for similar projects.

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